Confused about scanning

Discussion:

Daniel Sully

2002-02-17 05:09:41 UTC

Once upon a time Ben Scott shaped the electrons to say...

I used fam/imon on Irix a few years ago for watching file systems and
transfering files. The userland program that registered itself with fam
worked well, but fam itself was flakey. Granted this was on Irix 6.1.

However, as a generic solution, it's not good, and very platform dependent.

Not the right way to go.

-D
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Ben Scott

2002-02-16 20:03:27 UTC

Permalink

Very interesting. We should use this.
Does anyone know if any unices provide something like this?

SGI do something called FAM to watch for changes to the filesystem -
http://oss.sgi.com/projects/fam/index.html - but this only works for
Irix/Linux according to the FAQ (though I think there's a Solaris port),
and isn't standard in a lot of distributions.

Just thought I'd mention this - I don't know how suitable it would be as
I've not used it from a developers POV!
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Sean Adams

2002-02-16 19:37:04 UTC

Permalink

Very interesting. We should use this.

Does anyone know if any unices provide something like this?

On Windows you can use the FindFirstChangeNotification (Win32 API)
function to get notified when there a change to a dir/subtree.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/file
sio_9hgu.asp
/r

This isn't what select does at all. Select tells you the
readability/writeablity status of a file descriptor. It has nothing to do
with detecting changes on the file system.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes

state. Can we do this for a

directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell

us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to turn it

off. I

don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I don't

want that

running all the time either. At the very least, it will impact the

OS in

terms of memory usage (disk caches.).

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

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Sean Adams

2002-02-16 19:15:55 UTC

Permalink

It would be a wonderful thing if the OS gave you a way to detect changes
in areas of interest on the file system. I don't know of any way to do
that, on any OS. So Dean's continuous background scanning is really the
only way to do it if you want to pick up the changes automatically.

Your absolutely right. *blush*
But my point was poling versus interupt.

This isn't what select does at all. Select tells you the
readability/writeablity status of a file descriptor. It has nothing to do
with detecting changes on the file system.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes state. Can we do this

for a

directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

=====
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http://www.infinitylimited.net/jake/travel/2001
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dean blackketter

2002-02-16 16:00:59 UTC

Permalink

We sort of have this already. All you need to do is visit the top of
the subtree in Music Library and press play. Documentation of this
might be nice.

-dean

At least on *nix, I think some scripting is very likely to be involved in
moving new music into the library. When this happens, we know it and the
script can easily invoke some server URL entry point to restart the scan or
(better) just scan a (new) subtree. This might not be the right solution for
everyone on windows, but it's perfect for the power unix user.

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John Ruttenberg

2002-02-16 15:38:29 UTC

Permalink

dean blackketter

2003-02-22 12:58:28 UTC

Permalink

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Confused about
scanning</title></head><body>
<div>We sort of have this already.  All you need to do is visit
the top of the subtree in Music Library and press play. 
Documentation of this might be nice.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-dean</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>At least on *nix, I think some scripting
is very likely to be involved in<br>
moving new music into the library.  When this happens, we know it
and the<br>
script can easily invoke some server URL entry point to restart the
scan or<br>
(better) just scan a (new) subtree.  This might not be the right
solution for<br>
everyone on windows, but it's perfect for the power unix user.<br>
<br>
Rickard Lind:<br>
> On Windows you can use the FindFirstChangeNotification (Win32
API)<br>
> function to get notified when there a change to a
dir/subtree.<br>
> <br>
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/file<span

</span>io/file<br>

> sio_9hgu.asp<br>
> <br>
> /r<br>
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Rickard Lind

2002-02-16 14:51:52 UTC

Permalink

On Windows you can use the FindFirstChangeNotification (Win32 API)
function to get notified when there a change to a dir/subtree.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/file
sio_9hgu.asp

/r

This isn't what select does at all. Select tells you the
readability/writeablity status of a file descriptor. It has nothing to do
with detecting changes on the file system.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes

state. Can we do this for a

directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell

us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to turn it

off. I

don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I don't

want that

running all the time either. At the very least, it will impact the

OS in

terms of memory usage (disk caches.).

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

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Jake Hawkes

2002-02-16 07:27:12 UTC

Permalink

Your absolutely right. *blush*

But my point was poling versus interupt.

This isn't what select does at all. Select tells you the
readability/writeablity status of a file descriptor. It has nothing to do
with detecting changes on the file system.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes state. Can we do this

for a

directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

=====
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jakehawkes2001-/***@public.gmane.org
http://www.infinitylimited.net/jake/travel/2001

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Sean Adams

2002-02-15 01:20:26 UTC

Permalink

This isn't what select does at all. Select tells you the
readability/writeablity status of a file descriptor. It has nothing to do
with detecting changes on the file system.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes state. Can we do this for a
directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

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John Ruttenberg

2002-02-15 00:34:46 UTC

Permalink

I'd rather see scheduled/manual rescans.

Well, we'd have to do it potentially for many directories, depending
on how the user has their music organized.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd
changes state. Can we do this for a
directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would
tell us....

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dean blackketter

2002-02-14 23:45:10 UTC

Permalink

Well, we'd have to do it potentially for many directories, depending
on how the user has their music organized.

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd
changes state. Can we do this for a
directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would
tell us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to

turn it off. I

don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I

don't want that

running all the time either. At the very least, it will impact the OS in
terms of memory usage (disk caches.).

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

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Jake Hawkes

2002-02-14 23:36:40 UTC

Permalink

in C there is a select() statement which will return when a fd changes state. Can we do this for a
directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would tell us....

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.
-dean

=====
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jakehawkes2001-/***@public.gmane.org
http://www.infinitylimited.net/jake/travel/2001

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dean blackketter

2003-02-22 12:58:37 UTC

Permalink

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Confused about
scanning</title></head><body>
<div>Well, we'd have to do it potentially for many directories,
depending on how the user has their music organized.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>in C there is a select() statement which
will return when a fd changes state. Can we do this for a<br>
directory? Then we dont pol the directory for changes, the OS would
tell us....<br>
<br>
--- dean blackketter <dean-qV/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:<br>
> >dean blackketter:<br>
> >>  Interesting.  Why?<br>
> >><br>
> >>  >I think this will always have to be
optional.<br>
> >>  ><br>
> >>  ><br>
> ><br>
> >I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to
turn it off.  I<br>
> >don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I
don't want that<br>
> >running all the time either.  At the very least, it will
impact the OS in<br>
> >terms of memory usage (disk caches.).<br>
> <br>
> That's fair.   We should probably add a Rescan button
to the main <br>
> server settings page so people have a facility to notify the
server <br>
> that there is new music there.<br>
> <br>
> -dean<br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
Jacob Hawkes, B. Eng (CSE)<br>
jakehawkes2001-/***@public.gmane.org<br>
http://www.infinitylimited.net/jake/travel/2001<br>
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dean blackketter

2002-02-14 20:20:24 UTC

Permalink

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

That's fair. We should probably add a Rescan button to the main
server settings page so people have a facility to notify the server
that there is new music there.

-dean

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John Ruttenberg

2002-02-14 20:02:48 UTC

Permalink

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to turn it off. I
don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I don't want that
running all the time either. At the very least, it will impact the OS in
terms of memory usage (disk caches.).

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dean blackketter

2003-02-22 12:58:43 UTC

Permalink

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Confused about
scanning</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>dean blackketter:<br>
> Interesting.  Why?<br>
> <br>
> >I think this will always have to be optional.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
<br>
I guess I mean that I'd want an (possibly advanced) option to turn it
off.  I<br>
don't think scanning can get to be any faster than find and I don't
want that<br>
running all the time either.  At the very least, it will impact
the OS in<br>
terms of memory usage (disk caches.).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's fair.   We should probably add a Rescan button
to the main server settings page so people have a facility to notify
the server that there is new music there.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-dean</div>
</body>
</html>

dean blackketter

2002-02-14 19:23:17 UTC

Permalink

Interesting. Why?

I think this will always have to be optional.

I've been thinking that once we get the scanning so that it doesn't
impact the user interface (make the animations jumpy, etc...) we
should have it scan all the time. Once it finishes a complete scan,
just start over.
But we're not there yet.

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John Ruttenberg

2002-02-14 19:20:06 UTC

Permalink

I think this will always have to be optional.

dean blackketter

2003-02-22 12:58:47 UTC

Permalink

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Confused about
scanning</title></head><body>
<div>Interesting.  Why?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I think this will always have to be
optional.<br>
<br>
<br>
dean blackketter:<br>
> <br>
> I've been thinking that once we get the scanning so that it
doesn't <br>
> impact the user interface (make the animations jumpy, etc...) we
<br>
> should have it scan all the time.  Once it finishes a
complete scan, <br>
> just start over.<br>
> <br>
> But we're not there yet.<br>
> <br>
<br>
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dean blackketter

2002-02-14 19:17:08 UTC

Permalink

If you add files to the directory, it won't find them automatically
unless it already happens to be scanning.

If you navigate your music library and look at those songs (you don't
have to play them, just see their titles) they will get added to the
database automatically.

I've been thinking that once we get the scanning so that it doesn't
impact the user interface (make the animations jumpy, etc...) we
should have it scan all the time. Once it finishes a complete scan,
just start over.

But we're not there yet.

-dean

John Ruttenberg

2002-02-14 18:54:32 UTC

Permalink

I guess I don't quite understand how this works. Suppose I add some stuff to
my mp3dir while the server is running. Does it rescan? It seems it does.
How does it know? Does everyone think this is a good idea?

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dean blackketter

2003-02-22 12:58:48 UTC

Permalink

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Confused about
scanning</title></head><body>
<div>If you add files to the directory, it won't find them
automatically unless it already happens to be scanning.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you navigate your music library and look at those songs (you
don't have to play them, just see their titles) they will get added to
the database automatically.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I've been thinking that once we get the scanning so that it
doesn't impact the user interface (make the animations jumpy, etc...)
we should have it scan all the time.  Once it finishes a complete
scan, just start over.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>But we're not there yet.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-dean</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I guess I don't quite understand how this
works.  Suppose I add some stuff to<br>
my mp3dir while the server is running.  Does it rescan?  It
seems it does.<br>
How does it know?  Does everyone think this is a good idea?<br>
<br>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
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