Discussion:
Music stoppage during heavy net traffic
dean blackketter
2002-01-21 22:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Sean,

Does this imply that the client never will ask for the missing packet
more than once?

-dean
Paul,
You left out one important bit of info - what is the data rate of the MP3s
you're streaming?
The problem you're having is definitely due to packet loss, not an
underpowered server (or client). When a packet is dropped, the SliMP3 will
wait 150ms, then it tries again. If enough packets are lost that the
necessary data rate can't be sustained, then the buffer will eventually
run empty.
We could prehaps be more agressive about timeouts, either by assuming that
these will always be used on fast networks or by making the timeout some
multiple of the measured latency of the network.
Upgrading your hub to a switch would be a good idea if you're going to
have multiple players streaming at high data rates, along with additional
TCP traffic. Multiple SliMP3s will cooperate nicely on the same hub,
but TCP is much more agressive than our protocol, so it will always suck
up more bandwidth.
Hi Dean,
My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed the
following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17, 1Gb of
memory, with 5.6 perl.]
Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream of the
hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server.
If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the server
(this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that after
about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The new 'time elapsed' keeps
incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to get
the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop the
rsync.
This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about 400kb/sec
and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt for the
slim..
I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than all
other stuff....no dice.
Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes, but
I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub directly
and try that.
I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point it
starts working again.
-paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/rIp0lB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Sean Adams
2002-01-21 21:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

You left out one important bit of info - what is the data rate of the MP3s
you're streaming?

The problem you're having is definitely due to packet loss, not an
underpowered server (or client). When a packet is dropped, the SliMP3 will
wait 150ms, then it tries again. If enough packets are lost that the
necessary data rate can't be sustained, then the buffer will eventually
run empty.

We could prehaps be more agressive about timeouts, either by assuming that
these will always be used on fast networks or by making the timeout some
multiple of the measured latency of the network.

Upgrading your hub to a switch would be a good idea if you're going to
have multiple players streaming at high data rates, along with additional
TCP traffic. Multiple SliMP3s will cooperate nicely on the same hub,
but TCP is much more agressive than our protocol, so it will always suck
up more bandwidth.
Hi Dean,
My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed the
following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17, 1Gb of
memory, with 5.6 perl.]
Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream of the
hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server.
If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the server
(this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that after
about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The new 'time elapsed' keeps
incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to get
the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop the
rsync.
This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about 400kb/sec
and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt for the
slim..
I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than all
other stuff....no dice.
Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes, but
I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub directly
and try that.
I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point it
starts working again.
-paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Sponsored by VeriSign - The Value of Trust
Do you need to encrypt all your online transactions? Find
the perfect solution in this FREE Guide from VeriSign.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vCuuSA/UdiDAA/yigFAA/rIp0lB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
dean blackketter
2003-02-22 13:08:49 UTC
Permalink
<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Music stoppage during heavy net
traff</title></head><body>
<div>Sean,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Does this imply that the client never will ask for the missing
packet more than once?&nbsp; </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-dean</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Paul,<br>
<br>
You left out one important bit of info - what is the data rate of the
MP3s<br>
you're streaming?<br>
<br>
The problem you're having is definitely due to packet loss, not an<br>
underpowered server (or client). When a packet is dropped, the SliMP3
will<br>
wait 150ms, then it tries again. If enough packets are lost that
the<br>
necessary data rate can't be sustained, then the buffer will
eventually<br>
run empty.<br>
<br>
We could prehaps be more agressive about timeouts, either by assuming
that<br>
these will always be used on fast networks or by making the timeout
some<br>
multiple of the measured latency of the network.<br>
<br>
Upgrading your hub to a switch would be a good idea if you're going
to<br>
have multiple players streaming at high data rates, along with
additional<br>
TCP traffic.&nbsp; Multiple SliMP3s will cooperate nicely on the same
hub,<br>
but TCP is much more agressive than our protocol, so it will always
suck<br>
up more bandwidth.<br>
<br>
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Paul Rodman wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Dean,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed
the<br>
&gt; following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17,
1Gb of<br>
&gt; memory, with 5.6 perl.]<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream
of the<br>
&gt; hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the
server<br>
&gt; (this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that
after<br>
&gt; about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The new 'time elapsed'
keeps<br>
&gt; incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to
get<br>
&gt; the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop
the<br>
&gt; rsync.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about
400kb/sec<br>
&gt; and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt
for the<br>
&gt; slim..<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than
all<br>
&gt; other stuff....no dice.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes,
but<br>
&gt; I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub
directly<br>
&gt; and try that.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point
it<br>
&gt; starts working again.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -paul<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; __________________________________________________<br>
&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt; Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!<br>
&gt; http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send
an email to:</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt; Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>&gt;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~--&gt;<br>
Sponsored by VeriSign - The Value of Trust<br>
Do you need to encrypt all your online transactions? Find<br>
the perfect solution in this FREE Guide from VeriSign.<br>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vCuuSA/UdiDAA/yigFAA/rIp0lB/TM<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------<span </span>~-&gt;<br>
<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br>
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org<br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ </blockquote>
<div><br></div>
</body>
</html>
sam_saffron
2002-01-21 21:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like there is some issue with the client running out of data
under heavy network load. Sean will probably need to look at this
to
reproduce it.
This is very likely, once the buffer is empty on the slim, the slim
appears stop the stream. Perhaps under these conditions we should
send a SLIM_CONTROL_START (if client status is playing and position
on current filename is not changing and we are not at the end of the
file)...

Keep in mind that under high network use with a hub it is unlikely
you will be able to use the slim as the network would be
saturated....

Cheers

Sam


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/rIp0lB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
dean blackketter
2002-01-21 19:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Paul,

Doesn't sound like your server is underpowered, to say the least. :-)

Sounds like there is some issue with the client running out of data
under heavy network load. Sean will probably need to look at this to
reproduce it.

In the mean time, you should be able to restart the audio by pressing
pause and then pause again.

And yes, the server just assumes that the client doesn't stall, so
the counter keeps going up even though the sound stops. The good
news is that the client is still receiving packets from the server.
I assume that the progress bar, if you have it displayed (press PIP),
should stop going up when the audio stalls. Can you confirm this?

Let us know what happens when you change the network configuration
and crank down the rsync bandwidth.

Thanks for your patience.

-dean
Hi Dean,
My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed the
following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17, 1Gb of
memory, with 5.6 perl.]
Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream of the
hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server.
If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the server
(this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that after
about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The new 'time elapsed' keeps
incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to get
the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop the
rsync.
This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about 400kb/sec
and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt for the
slim..
I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than all
other stuff....no dice.
Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes, but
I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub directly
and try that.
I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point it
starts working again.
-paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Paul Rodman
2002-01-21 19:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dean,

My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed the
following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17, 1Gb of
memory, with 5.6 perl.]

Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream of the
hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server.

If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the server
(this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that after
about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The new 'time elapsed' keeps
incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to get
the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop the
rsync.

This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about 400kb/sec
and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt for the
slim..

I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than all
other stuff....no dice.

Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes, but
I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub directly
and try that.

I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point it
starts working again.


-paul






__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/rIp0lB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
dean blackketter
2003-02-22 13:09:00 UTC
Permalink
<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [slimp3-dev] Music stoppage during heavy net
traff</title></head><body>
<div>Thanks Paul,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Doesn't sound like your server is underpowered, to say the least.
:-)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Sounds like there is some issue with the client running out of
data under heavy network load.&nbsp; Sean will probably need to look
at this to reproduce it.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In the mean time, you should be able to restart the audio by
pressing pause and then pause again.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>And yes, the server just assumes that the client doesn't stall,
so the counter keeps going up even though the sound stops.&nbsp; The
good news is that the client is still receiving packets from the
server.&nbsp; I assume that the progress bar, if you have it displayed
(press PIP), should stop going up when the audio stalls.&nbsp; Can you
confirm this?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Let us know what happens when you change the network
configuration and crank down the rsync bandwidth.&nbsp; </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thanks for your patience.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-dean</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hi Dean,<br>
<br>
My slim(s) (I now have two) work pretty well, But I have noticed
the<br>
following problem. [My server is a 1.6Mhz Althon running 2.4.17, 1Gb
of<br>
memory, with 5.6 perl.]<br>
<br>
Both slims share 10Bt hubs with wireless 80211a nodes. upstream of
the<br>
hubs all the network traffic is switched, back to the server. <br>
<br>
If I start a large rsync from my laptop (on wireless) to the
server<br>
(this is the same server running server.pl) Then I notice that
after</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>about 10-15s the music goes quiet.. The
new 'time elapsed' keeps<br>
incrementing (Oh yes, I'm running t-o-t server off sourceforge to
get<br>
the multi-slim support), but music never returns, even if I stop
the<br>
rsync.<br>
<br>
This is very repeatable. The wireless copy is using about
400kb/sec<br>
and this should leave enough bandwidth one would think on 10Bt for
the<br>
slim..<br>
<br>
I tried renicing the slim server to -1, so it was higher than all<br>
other stuff....no dice.<br>
<br>
Perhaps this is some strange interaction with the wireless nodes,
but<br>
I doubt it. Next time I get a chance I will plug into the hub
directly<br>
and try that.<br>
<br>
I can also try the bwlimit flag to rsync and see at what point it<br>
starts working again.<br>
<br>
<br>
-paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!<br>
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/<br>
<br>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
---------------------~--&gt;<br>
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!<br>
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!<br>
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!<br>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/rIp0lB/TM<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------<span </span>~-&gt;<br>
<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br>
slimp3-dev-unsubscribe-***@public.gmane.org<br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ </blockquote>
<div><br></div>
</body>
</html>

Loading...